A potted history of Ukraine and communications

[Suff]

What are they going to talk about? How much of Ukraine they can walk away with as a result of waging war on a nation state?

If we sanctify that, then anyone with the power can get in on the act.

[Workingman]

You do know that the governor of Mikolaiv and a Ukraine defence minister have asked the West to supply more arms and munitions to the front line in the Donbas. They can only fire one shell to the Russian's ten.

I hit the 'send' button so it's all sorted. Easy peasy on a keyboard.

Russia does not want the whole of Ukraine. It wants a land bridge to Crimea where most of its inhabitants are ethnic Russians, hence the issuing of passports in those areas.

And you are going to do what to prevent that?

[victor]

I wonder what percent of the population of those areas are ethnic russians

[Suff]

Russia does not want the whole of Ukraine. It wants a land bridge to Crimea

So that's all right then. Start a war, kill thousands on each side, so you can hag on to a bit of the country you attacked.

I wasn't aware that was OK now.

[Workingman]

I wonder what percent of the population of those areas are ethnic russians

Russia does not want the whole of Ukraine. It wants a land bridge to Crimea

So that's all right then. Start a war, kill thousands on each side, so you can hag on to a bit of the country you attacked.

I wasn't aware that was OK now.

Of course it is not OK, nobody is saying it is, but the killing and destruction has to stop. For that to happen a ceasefire is needed and the only way to get that is by dialogue and diplomacy. Things have been that way in almost all conflicts ever. Ukraine will be no different.

Once a ceasefire is working then negotiations can begin over what comes next. It could, and probably will, take many years but at least in those years the deaths and destruction will stop.

[Suff]

All it takes for the killing and destruction to stop is for Russia to stop attacking another soverign nation.

Why is this so hard to understand.

We are supposed to have learned from WW2. Towards the end that was total war because there was no talking to Hitler, he was keeping everything he gained and he was going to take as much else as he could until we stopped him or drove him out.

We said Never Again.

It is happening again and the suggestion is. "Talk". Not drive him out and majlke sure he doesn't do it again, no, "people are dying and we have to talk".

If you ask the Ukrainians they don't want talk, they want the Russians gone. Give them the tools and they will do it themselves. They will even pay for the tools once their economy is back up again.

We saw this more recently with Serbia and Bosnia. Serbia were not going to stop in Bosnia until Nato stopped them; physically. Even then they went and attacked Kosovo until we stopped that too.

We said that we would not wait so long again in similar circumstances.

Mealy mouthed words for some.

[Workingman]

Sick of all the bullshit. Serbia and Bosnia compared to Russia and Ukraine! Give it a rest. We give then the tools and they kick Russia out is all you have! It's a daydream. A. we can't give them the tools in the numbers you would like, and B. they do not have the manpower to use them.

I'm out.

[Suff]

So you won't listen to anything but what you believe. Talk is bullshit when one side is the aggressor and won't stop till it gets what it wants. Talk? You can't stop the deaths because they wont' stop unless they get what they want. You won't accept that a country will NOT give away part of itself just because a large aggressive neighbour attacks and won't stop attacking. The only way, then, if we won't support them, is for them to Lose.

How that makes Eastern EU feel safer is a mystery to me.

This is what NATO is ALL about. People grouping together to stop aggression from larger neighbours.

You say we can't give what they need in sufficient volume. Bollocks. We won't and have not so far. Can't? Of course we can and if we really wanted to we could provide safe corridors for our equipment with our own aircraft and anti aircraft technology.

Don't give me can't. Won't take the effort or the risk is more like it.

I'm tired of hearing about how another country has to do something we would _never_ do because it's too much effort to stop Russia. Just imagine if we had taken that attitude with Hitler? The US tried it twice with "European" wars. After the second one they realised that this is not something you should do. It seems they forgot again.