Striking nurses.

[Workingman]

Yes, they are essential to our health. Yes, they work hard. And yes, they are under pressure. But let's get a bit of perspective.

My sister's best friend, Christine, became a nurse under the old SRN/SEN rules. Some time later "degree qualified" nurses became the way to go. They do not actually do a "degree" in the real sense, they do a 50-50 training course more akin to an old diploma. A mix of theory and practical.

So, back to Christine. When degree nurses came in all nurses got a pay rise of 30% - late 60s early 70s? Without that their real pay today would be much lower than it actually is, but we would still have nurses. The claim for 19% is akin to what the the miners wanted. and look how that ended.

They should accept a decent pay rise and then go for higher ones in the years ahead once the economy stabilises. Striking now is not winning them many friends.

[Suff]

Not just the miners, Leyland and their demands in the 70's for massive pay rises above inflation. Bring the line to a stop every time they wanted another pay rise.

Where is UK car manufacturing now???

Whilst I know that the Nurses can't just vanish the way our businesses did, it can be merged into a Public-Private partnership if they push too hard.

If the Unions were smart they would demand a 3 year 19% package with 7% now and an index linked linked 6% in years 2 and 3. This is both sensible and in line with other negotiations that Tory Governments have done. Not only that but this would guarantee a higher salary at the end of 3 years than 19% now and you can bet that at 19% now they would get nothing for the following years.

This is so obvious that my take is the unions are in this for the political gain and not for the benefit of the Nurses.

[Workingman]

Do stop talking sense.

[medsec222]

Couldn't agree more with you about the nurses Frank.

I can remember being a medical secretary when there were SRNs and SENs. They were trained on the job at the hospital and were paid a salary. I am not sure why there is all this obsession with nurses having to do a degree course. There are opportunities within the nursing structure for nurses to specialise and take a degree course at various points on their career paths. At the time when I first started as a medical secretary, it would have been unthinkable for a nurse to go on strike. Hopefully they will come to a fair settlement shortly and resume their jobs looking after sick patients. A 19% pay rise is unrealistic and will set a precedence for everyone else in a powerful Union to ask for the same. Those who will suffer the most are the low paid workers at the bottom of the scale who will not get 19% and may not even get a pay rise, yet they will feel the full brunt of the inflationary pay rises of others.

[Workingman]

Meds, one of my ex SIL started nursing at age 18 in order to become an SRN. She, like all the rest, became a general nurse once qualified and worked the wards. When she was 25 she took another course to become a mental health nurse and councellor - that got her a pay rise on top of the annual emoluments. Others went on to specialise in such things as op theatre, A&E or paediatrics. It was a sytem that worked, and with far less management.

She did the job for 30 years and, at the time, had a strong dislike for many of the new "degree" nurses who, she claimed, saw themselves as a 'cut above' the old SRNs and SENs.

[TheOstrich]

Master O, as a healthcare assistant, would have liked to have trained up as a student nurse, but the hospital he was attached to, Eastbourne, was not designated as a "teaching hospital"; I think the nearest one that was was Folkestone, and travel there for shift work on a daily basis was simply unrealistic. So he had no method of progression up the ladder, and has now left the NHS.

The claim for a 19% pay-rise is completely risible, and the Government should stick to their guns. A root-and-branch overhaul of the NHS is well overdue, with the initial emphasis on management, and I would also want to ask the fundamental question "just what exactly is the NHS for?". Given that GPs are always complaining they are overworked, I'd venture that there's too much emphasis in surgeries on "preventative" checks and not enough time spent on assisting folk with actual issues. A controversial view, I know, so at this point I'll don me tin hat!

And don't get me started on the rail workers and Royal Mail wallahs. I'd settle the rail dispute by granting the RMT what they want, then implementing Beeching 2.0 and closing 75% of all existing railway lines, leading to compulsory redundancy for at least 50% of the workforce. As for the CWU, I know that all of the Christmas cards I personally sent this year - and I watched them disappear into a sack at the local sub-post office nearly a fortnight ago (and 1st class at that) - haven't arrived. They're probably still in the ever-growing pile at Southampton Sorting Office. No Christmas Box for the postie this year!

[cromwell]

I am not sure why there is all this obsession with nurses having to do a degree course. There are opportunities within the nursing structure for nurses to specialise and take a degree course at various points on their career paths.

Absolutely agree. Learning on the job is a good way to learn.

[cromwell]

And don't get me started on the rail workers and Royal Mail wallahs. I'd settle the rail dispute by granting the RMT what they want, then implementing Beeching 2.0 and closing 75% of all existing railway lines, leading to compulsory redundancy for at least 50% of the workforce.

That is Machiavellian! I like your style!

[Suff]

And don't get me started on the rail workers and Royal Mail wallahs. I'd settle the rail dispute by granting the RMT what they want, then implementing Beeching 2.0 and closing 75% of all existing railway lines, leading to compulsory redundancy for at least 50% of the workforce.

That is Machiavellian! I like your style!

Especially if it was mothballed and then re-started over the next decade with completely new staff drawn from younger people.

Alternatively you could just sell the railways to Elon Musk.....

OK I'll get my coat.

[Kaz]

D was a nurse for over 40 years and is very much for the old system of training on the wards, as they did.