How many people

[cromwell]

Are killed or harmed by illegal drugs each year, and how many by fireworks?

Yet there is increasing pressure to legalise drugs and to ban fireworks.

Funny old game Saint, as Jimmy Greaves used to say.

[Kaz]

Yes, that is bizarre

[Aggers]

Are killed or harmed by illegal drugs each year, and how many by fireworks?

.

I Don't know, but I think they should both be banned.

[Workingman]

Never mind killed, how many people get into serious crime to feed their drug addiction and how many to let off a few fireworks?

[Suff]

I don't usually watch any of this stuff. I'm ex military of a long line of military family. Forces don't do drugs. My brother, however did. I watched him and I watched my nephew. At least my brother sorted his life out early. My Nephew is still suffering the impact of long term cannabis abuse.

This BBC article has clearly been written by a recreational drugs user. After all what's the problem lots of countries want to treat it as a health issue.

Ok so let me identify the whole attitude of this article and the whole "health" approach.

'No-one chooses to be an addict'

Alex, a recovering heroin and crack addict from London

The majority of my family either suffer from addiction or have died as a consequence of it. I have buried two friends this year.

Really. So they have a mental problem as well as a health problem. When people start dying around you, usually you sit up and take notice.

Addiction is a progressive illness. I started smoking cannabis when I was 18 or 19 at university.

Right. First challenge. He states that nobody decides to become an addict. Well, I beg to differ. 18 or 19 is fully old enough to know that drugs use can lead to addiction. He might not have chosen to be an addict there and then, but he chose to run the risk

I was abstinent in the army, but used alcohol in cross-addiction for about six years.

Next inconsistency. I won't call it a lie, most addicts lie to themselves daily. He was clean of drugs for 6 years. Many are what I call "functioning alcoholics" in the Army. But they don't do drugs or feel the need to do drugs. He chose to go back to drugs. So now he's not being honest with us or himself. He DID choose to be an addict because after six years he went back to drugs. Knowing the risks, knowing what he would face.

I served in Iraq and was blown up in Basra. Post-Iraq, I worked in contract security and would use when I got back to the UK.

I'm 38. I got clean at 30 and go to 12-step fellowship meetings nearly every day.

Actually he got clean in the Army. Then went back. I would not assume his 12 step fellowship will hold any more than 6 years abstinence would.

I don't believe for one moment that the current laws deter any addict from using, to assume they do makes the assumption that addicts have control and choice.

Hell no. But it _Will_ deter some from starting to use in the first place. Which is what these laws are all about. Also there need to be massively stringent laws to punish those addicts to attempt to lure others into addiction. If it were my child, I'd want to see them go away for life. So they would have no opportunity to ruin any more lives.

The views of the Home Office are out of touch and most probably based in ignorance of what addiction is. No-one I know chose to become an addict.

Have a longer, harder look in the mirror.

The fact the Home Office is responsible for drug policy, including treatment, is alarming and probably why the UK is blighted with addiction.

Erm, no, it's not drug policy which breeds addicts. It's people who decide to take drugs......

So let's take this wishy washy Lab Dim policy on letting people both become drug addicts and making it "easy" for them to BE drug addicts.

So Canada and Switzerland have drugs rooms. Great. Good idea. Here's my plan.

Register for the drugs room. You need to bring 3 forms of ID and two recent utility bills.

When you have registered:

Your driving license is automatically revoked and your vehicle is impounded.
You are enrolled on a register that blocks you from taking any job with responsibility, no health position, no position handling money. Basically an office cleaner or street sweeper is the limit.
If you have children they are put on the "at risk" register

If you want your driving license back and you want to get off the register you have to submit to a drugs rehabilitation course, followed by 5 years clear of drugs followed by a further 2 years clear of drugs with blood tests ever single day for those two years.

Yep, I'd treat it as a health issue. We don't let Epileptics drive, we don't allow certifiably insane people hold responsible jobs.

Because, to my mind, if you use drugs regularly you are certifiably insane.....

Yep. Health problem works for me.....

[Kaz]

Actually drug taking and the military is a growing problem

http://www.castlecraig.co.uk/resources/ ... y-veterans

[victor]

my view is more simplistic

users to go cold turkey

pushers to be executed

[Workingman]

Actually drug taking and the military is a growing problem

http://www.castlecraig.co.uk/resources/ ... y-veterans

Drugs have always been used in the Military. When I was in the RAF, 70s and 80s, we all knew who was on them and who was clean. There was also a heavy drinking culture with some people drunk every night. There are a lot of city pubs who would love to pull as many pints as a NAAFI does in a week.

One of the biggest failures in the 'war on drugs' is that the pushers at the very top are not punished enough. Get them, put them in jail on a tough regime for 25 years, minimum, and seize all of their assets and those of their family and known associates.

If we are going to have a 'war' then let's fight it properly.

[Suff]

The only country which has successfully fought and won a war on drugs is Vietnam. When they finally won they inherited a south literally sinking under the weight of drugs and drug addicts. American money at work.

They had a simple approach. They executed those trafficking. They executed those pushing. Then if they had too much trouble with cold turkey users, they executed them too.

It worked. No problem. Drugs gone to somewhere less hostile.

Pity about that democracy thing isn't it.... We can't beat drugs because we can't take the steps to truly eradicate them because our very society won't allow it. So we drown in drugs....

[Suff]

Nobody in any of the units I worked in had any drug users that I knew about. One of the driver squadrons had a couple who were caught buying in Holland. 6 months prison and out. Simple. Zero tolerance.

Since the days of "not shouting at recruits", gay and lesbian relationships and "soldiers rights", the Army has descended into all the vices. Not a place I'd choose to go today. They had very good reasons for everything they did. Because the Army and not civilians and civilian laws should not cover most of what they do.

Such is life. I just hope to keep my grandkids off any drugs. None of the children are users so it shouldn't be too hard if we spend the time.