Change in tactics?

[medsec222]

It is too soon to hope that Jeremy Hunt will be a much firmer negotiator than David Davies. Much as I respect David Davies he was perhaps a bit too nice as a negotiator. Certainly he seems to have put up with being sidelined for a good many months. I am hoping that Jeremy Hunt won't be deflected from his purpose.

[Suff]

Essentially, I believe, the EU is doing the job for the Hard Brexiteers.

Even through a catalogue of catastrophic decisions by the EU, intending to browbeat the UK, they have not learned one single thing. Transaction tax, veto. Change in terms to avoid a referendum, sent away with a scolding. Leading to a referendum and a Brexit vote.

Now we have the EU DEMANDING that the UK do what they say and break apart the UK if we won't.

Most likely result? Two fingers and walking with no bill and an even larger hole through the middle of the EU 2020 - 2027 budget.

We've got Raab, new in the job, going from carrot to stick, we've got Hunt issuing warnings and Barnier talking about redlines and the NI border (again).

The EU has not learned one single thing through this entire process.

Neither have most of our own politicians either. But the upshot of the whole thing is this. May put her entire career on the line, forcing Davis and Boris out, pushing Raab into a new role to "make it happen". What did she get? More of the same. The EU wants to hear what the EU wants to hear and is not willing to hear anything else.

Who was May talking to before making this "momentous" decision? Merkel and Macron.

Guess what Theresa, Surprise. Merkel and Macron signed the same treaty that the other 25 did. Giving the Commission SOLE negotiating competency. Merkel only gets to have a say once Juncker puts a deal in front of her. Oh she can suggest away as much as she likes, but she has no direct sway over these negotiations at all.

As I said, the day after May's coup. The EU will never go for it.

The Government is going on recess. They will reconvene in September. The EU is not going to change its mind and they _need_ a deal done by October so that it can be put before the Council and then to the 27 member state Parliaments.

That deal will not be on the table because May cannot, now, back down. It is physically impossible, she would face a challenge the day after she capitulated and the EU would be left fuming whilst the Tory Party elected a new leader. A leader with a mandate to tell them to go shove it where the sun don't shine.

Juncker has always believed that the UK would capitulate. After all that is what all "good" EU governments do when negotiating with the EU. He has not, yet, realised that he simply does not understand the UK. If he did, we would never have had a referendum in the first place.

[Workingman]

Leave voters created this crap, every single one of them, nobody else, and they consistently refused to take ownership once the wheels began falling off.

That's it, I am out. I will not read nor respond to any more Brexit threads.

[Suff]

Well, actually, you have moved from Blaming Cameron, the Tories and Farage; to blaming the voters for daring to actually exercise their voting power and vote against something they didn't like.

We are IN this situation. There is only one side throwing fuel on the fire, today and it is not the UK.

As my grandfather used to say. When you find yourself in a hole and can't get out; "Don't polish the sides".

Right now the EU has a larger polishing cloth and is working harder at polishing. It is not the fault of the UK voters who voted to leave.

Although I do understand that this is the very easiest answer of all.

[AliasAggers]

That's it, I am out. I will not read nor respond to any more Brexit threads.

GOOD I shall not read them either.

[medsec222]

Why blame the voters Frank. They exercised their choice as they were entitled to do - and it could have gone either way. The blame is firmly on the shoulders of those entrusted to deliver and who have so far failed. If brexit is impossible to deliver, then a referendum should never have been offered in the first place. Again, not the fault of the voter.

[Kaz]

It never should have been called in the first place! I have never known this country to be as divided and anxious as it now is.

[cromwell]

Well, that is it really.

If leaving the EU is so dangerous, impossible and fraught with danger - why was the choice ever offered to voters?

To go back to the OP, no, I don't believe Hunt will be any tougher. Everything the government is doing is keeping us as closely in line with the EU as possible. I believe that this is to make it easier for a future government to take us back in. Could be wrong though - I make no claim to be infallibly correct!

[Suff]

It never should have been called in the first place! I have never known this country to be as divided and anxious as it now is.

So, Kaz, you think that because the country is divided the majority, who do not want the EU, should not be offered the option to leave it?

Because you don't want to?

It is this kind of thinking which is driving the radical right voting all over the EU. It sounds great to those who believe in it. It sounds utterly horrendous to those who do not.

The whole problem here is that successive governments have been denying the people what they want. Are you really so against leaving the EU that you would want a UKIP government? If you think that is impossible, just look at Italy today.

Reality is a harsh mistress.

[TheOstrich]

The very notion being mooted that "Brexit was/is impossible to deliver" is in my view a complete damnation of the situation the UK had/has gotten into, anyway.

So you've tied me to this chair, but oh, I've asked you to loosen the ties and you've said "No", and it's therefore impossible for me to release myself, so I won't even try??

To quote one of Terry Pratchett's phrases: "Dearie, dearie me …."

I think there are many things that have made the country divided and anxious, to be honest, and the EU is only part of the narrative. The rapid erosion of our existing society and culture, and its replacement by a crude, enforced substitute is one.

But then I'm old generation, whadda I know?