Closer and closer

[Workingman]

Just to make things clear....

Shaz and Suff both realise, hopefully, that I have been playing Devil's Advocate or WUM (Wind Up Merchant) on this - take your pick.

I have done so so that any passing Scots who will be voting Yes do it for the right reasons; and both Shaz and Suff have provided plenty of them. My worry, right at the beginning, was that there was a lot of Flew'r o' Scotlan' out there and not so much cogent argument. As time has passed that sort of emotion has been overtaken somewhat, though it is still there. And nobody, as yet, has squared the circle of independence and joining the EU. Ah well, we can't win 'em all.

If Scotland votes Yes, and does it for the right reasons, I hope that rUK, and Scotland, both behave in an adult manner and that ties remain as close as they can. I live in hope.

Vote "No" is still my call and that is what I would do if I had a vote.

[Suff]

I had noticed a few talking head points that can't be defended....

Nothing like a good structured "discussion" to get the info and the thinking going....

Aggers, nobody is saying that because English think Scots should stay in the Union and that it would be better for them makes them Anti Scottish. However look at it from the Scots side. If they _know_ that they will be better out and people keep saying that they should stay because it will be better for them. Then they are going to get pretty shirty about people who don't really know the situation and are giving advice just to see, what they see, as "more of the same".

I probably would have been a No if it were not for how incandescently angry I have been with Major and his games and to a degree still am today. Maggie I have no qualm with, she gave full notice that if you were not with her then you were against her and you were fair game.

I have lived the life where no matter what you vote, no matter how much you change your local representation, your country is going to be governed by the wishes and needs of a bigger part of the union. Even worse, a bigger part of the union who can't even be bothered to vote, allowing their representation to be even worse. Impacting me even more.

I switched to SNP a long time ago as an alternative to English Only politics in Scotland. I won't walk away from that now just because things might get hard. The reasons for the switch are still there and still valid.

[Workingman]

Suff, there is a general principle that you cannot make a positive out of a negative..... and the "No" camp seemed to have taken it on board from day one. It is not true.

There were many positives for the Scots from voting "No" if they had been put forward. Does any mildly interested person know what they are? Not if they looked at the 'Better Together' info. All they got was BT trying to knock everything the "Yes" camp proposed. They were always reactive and never active.

If the Scots do go for independence it will, to some extent, be down to Better Together.

[cromwell]

The Yes campaign suddenly takes the lead in the polls and.... what's all this???

The leaders of all three main UK parties suddenly burst out of their front doors, shirt tails flying, as they rush to get the first train to Scotland.

Gordon Brown, who has made fewer public appearances recently than did Osama Bin Laden, is all of a sudden everywhere.

And the promises! Devo max, free Irn Bru in schools...* Rangers and Celtic to be given entry to the Premier League**, barrowloads of cash for everyone...

The dreadful reality has suddenly hit home and panic stricken Westminsterites are running round like headless chickens.

* I made this one up.

** And this one.

[Workingman]

* Rangers and Celtic to be given entry to the Premier League**

Oh, do be brief. Lg 1 at best. Let them get the better of Scunny, Donny and Sheff U..... then Barnsly and Bratf'd.

Give the traitors an easy ride why don't you?

[Suff]

The dreadful reality has suddenly hit home and panic stricken Westminsterites are running round like headless chickens.

What you mean "It's going to HURT" LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS and not just Scotland.....

I've been saying that for weeks. I've even been pummelling the politicians telling them to go make some political capital of it. It's going to hurt anyway, might as well get some mileage out of the pain.

But, seriously, what is the undecided Scots voter to think?

When No was a virtual certainly they were not important.

When Yes is suddenly possible they're incredibly important. So important that the regular business of the UK government can go hang until they are convinced to vote No!

I know what a lot of them are going to think. You lying B'stards. And many of them are going to listen, smile and stick two fingers up.

If there was one thing likely to boost the Yes camp at the 11th hour, this is it.

Consistent to the very bitter end in their lack of strategy and planning.

[shazsha]

* Rangers and Celtic to be given entry to the Premier League**

Oh, do be brief. Lg 1 at best. Let them get the better of Scunny, Donny and Sheff U..... then Barnsly and Bratf'd.

Give the traitors an easy ride why don't you?

Lg 1 would even be too good for our best

I happily concede Scotland's football teams are terrible and should NOT be placed in a league with any half decent teams!!!

WM, I'm not going to square the EU question for you but I will attempt to explain my own viewpoint.

Although I'm voting Yes I don't want my country to be totally independent of every other nation and don't believe, to be successful we could be. We would still need imports, exports, expertise of other countries, etc.
However I do what a country whose government is elected by it's people and who is doing their best for those people. I don't see Westminster as doing this. Westminster has four countries to consider and obviously some decisions won't be the best for Scotland. I want a government that will try to always put Scotland's interests first while still interacting with other nations. Obviously rules will filter down from the EU that will affect us all but at least I'll know that the government representing my country is doing what is best for Scotland.

[shazsha]

I know what a lot of them are going to think. You lying B'stards. And many of them are going to listen, smile and stick two fingers up.

If there was one thing likely to boost the Yes camp at the 11th hour, this is

Exactly right.

They really don't get us or they wouldn't be sending Cameron anywhere near Scotland-he is likely to turn the undecided into staunch Yes voters!

[Suff]

They really don't get us or they wouldn't be sending Cameron anywhere near Scotland-he is likely to turn the undecided into staunch Yes voters!

Yep I've been bashing that point a bit too. Nobody in their right mind would send a Tory leader to Scotland, from England, to try and make them make up their mind to stay with England. That's a push even for Scottish Tories amongst whom there is a huge chunk of bitterness as to what was done to them in the 80's and 90's for the benefit of England.

Most Scots wouldn't trust Brown with a broken trycicle, let alone an economy and as for Clegg, they may have treated him a little more easily at the EU elections than England, but they see the coalition with Tories as a betrayal by bringing in another Tory government; after the Scots worked so hard to keep them out. In fact there has never been more than 1 Scots Tory MP since 1997.

There have got to be a lot of undecided who are thinking to themselves. "If they know us so little, what is the point of staying with them?"

[Workingman]

WM, I'm not going to square the EU question for you but I will attempt to explain my own viewpoint.

Although I'm voting Yes I don't want my country to be totally independent of every other nation and don't believe, to be successful we could be. We would still need imports, exports, expertise of other countries, etc.

Really!

So what sort of independence do you really want?

It is independence from England isn't it? That is the driving force. Being dependent in any other union is a secondary choice. Be brave, come out and say what you really want.